Manners in LIHL

[dweiler]

Lately, we have noticed the overall atmosphere in LIHL worsened a lot. People try to force their will on others by flaming, manipulating and being rude, picking on weaker players, raging if someone plays in a different way than they would, even making things personal by mentioning personal things. This is all unacceptable in LIHL. We have not acted strongly on this so far, because we felt personal issues should stay personal, but it came to a point where everything LIHL stands for is in jeopardy.

To be clear: this in-house league is meant for people who are good at legion td and want to play fun, mannered and skilled games. Everyone in here has to team play, be mannered and try to play the best they can. Yes, this means that some people are not as good as you or disagree with a call, but instead of raging at them, help them, accept that they are trying their best, but are not as good as you, or acknowledge than other ways of playing than yours can be good too.

In my experience, if you are nice and mannered, everyone is willing to cooperate. That is all that you need in LIHL because everyone here can play.

If you are unable to accept people are not as good as you, if you cannot behave yourself in a way that also the weaker players or players who make other choices than you can also enjoy this league, then LIHL is no place for you. If you can only play with people who do what you want, or make choices that you want, go play with your own group of 4 in 1200+, not in LIHL.

From now on, anyone who thinks they need to be a tough guy by flaming people who they think are doing it wrong, or picking on others, can expect the moderators to be tough guys too, except we have some more tools of power, so you are bound to lose that.

The moderators decide who are in the league, not you. The other players decide how they build, not you.

Summary: cooperation, advice, fun, tolerance -> if not you can expect measures.

[KiwiLeKiller]

Funny, because the biggest flamer I've seen lately in LIHL is definitly Ace_of_Spades. Not talking all game, flaming people, not cooperating, etc. All this, repetitively. Maybe mods should try to show the example to follow instead of creating a bad atmosphere.

"As a moderator, you are held to a higher standard than regular players.
You represent ENT, and therefore, the image you project will reflect negatively (or positively) on ENT as a whole."

[BoretkPanda]

Funny, because the biggest flamer I've seen lately in LIHL is definitly Ace_of_Spades. Not talking all game, flaming people, not cooperating, etc. All this, repetitively. Maybe mods should try to show the example to follow instead of creating a bad atmosphere.

"As a moderator, you are held to a higher standard than regular players.
You represent ENT, and therefore, the image you project will reflect negatively (or positively) on ENT as a whole."

This Thread is no place for more Kiwi-Drama.

[KiwiLeKiller]

I don't want to start drama or anything. I think it's great that Mick wants to keep/create a nice atmosphere in LIHL, I agree with the concept.

However, I think it's important to highlight the fact that some moderators are also part of the problem. So when saying this:
"From now on, anyone who thinks they need to be a tough guy by flaming people who they think are doing it wrong, or picking on others, can expect the moderators to be tough guys too, except we have some more tools of power, so you are bound to lose that."
It feels like moderators are not acknowledging this fact.

[HazarDous]

It feels like moderators are not acknowledging this fact.

We do, and are bound by same rules / policies as normal players. The best way to change someone's behaviour, though, is often to talk to him privately about it

[Beastman]

Good man @hazardous . The french arent' all bad in Quebec, even my mother's one of them!

[FadingSuns]

Funny, because the biggest flamer I've seen lately in LIHL is definitly Ace_of_Spades. Not talking all game, flaming people, not cooperating, etc. All this, repetitively. Maybe mods should try to show the example to follow instead of creating a bad atmosphere.

"As a moderator, you are held to a higher standard than regular players.
You represent ENT, and therefore, the image you project will reflect negatively (or positively) on ENT as a whole."

Quite fun to have this comment comming from the most dramaguy i ever met in lihl. Thing is that u pretend that ppl do what u say (calling your own calls as team calls, quite funny) and trying to chase anyone that disagree with you. You are the guy that in last months have asked 2 times to get perma unvouched, you are they guy that have asked unvouch for guys as avada or donki pretending to tell rest that they have not enought skill for lihl. Definitely you have 0 credibility to talk about this topic.

Theres only 1 single situation where i get mad, everyone knows it, i hate when ppl try to control my line, specially when is someone i consider lowskilled as you or the accolites that thanked ur shit post. U are already mistaken if you think that this whole topic comes from mick exclusively. This is the result of a conversation than involved all lihl moderation.

Abusers will be chased, rage one game eventually is not a ban reason, be constantly pushing rest to the limit as you do quite ofter will be punished from now, if its not clear enought, next time you feel i do flame go ahead and make a topic. Just dont pretend to come here, i have already warned you several times about your attitude and you come here with this hero post, fun fun fun.

[TinSoldier]

Lol LIHL has always been like this, there's no less rage/flame/drama than there has been in the past. Players will tilt when there is TK, its a competitive league, "good" players will give advice or tips to others, "bad" players will too. I dont give a shit if you want to be Ms. Independent and TK your lane in your personal style, I want to win. If someone is 4k value ea hydra and can't go mid on 15 vs zxv, I'm gonna give him advice on how to build next time we play together. If you're consistently over pushing, missing sends, ignoring teammates then players will tilt towards you and "flame". You talk about fun, mannered and skilled games Mick which I agree is important. The problem is that to achieve fun and mannered games, the prerequisite is skill. You take skill out of the equation and manners and fun go flying out the window.

Not everyone here can be like yourself, or Jamo, or Yolo.Style (I have never seen you guys rage or flame I'm sure there are others), its an online game and we're a bunch of dudes competing at a " high level". It seems you think the best way is to treat this like a preschool playground where we can't say badwords when we lose cause someone's feelings will get hurt. Fuck that.

I'm "guilty" of everything you listed in your post, but to me they are a non issue. When was the last time you played in LIHL mick? Your opinion of the league atmosphere is basically limited to the forums, where naturally you will only see the most extreme cases of drama. This "everything lihl stands for is in jeapordy" actually made me laugh. After I read that I thought your whole post was an elaborate joke and I was looking forward to the punch line in the end. LIHL is as active as I have ever seen, considering this is our first full season with the switch to discord. The only thing I see in jeapordy is the integrity of rules and the reputation of LIHL as a high skilled league. I won't go any further on that cause I'm sure you know what I am referring to.

Anyway GG I look forward to getting unvouched from the league if this is what LIHL mods intend to be cracking down on, cause my behaviour is not going to change.

[Meshtar]

Well, tbh I don't think anyone thought people will stop saying random flaming stuff, it just needs to have some limits. Saying you are shit player, you suck, gtfo and learn to play, fuck off idiot etc I don't think anyone is gonna drama about. But I also saw, son of a whore, you fucking retarded piece of shit, god damn alcoholic retard, you fucking nigger cunt etc, which I don't think belong in a place like this. I don't know how old you are, but I don't think I would take insults like that from anyone for whatever reasons and will perma ignore anyone who throws that towards me which would result in bad team communication in future games. Teenagers and barely mature take those things much easier I guess, but I don't think there are too many kids here, I feel like lihl is mostly mature gaming community? Maybe we can poll for league opinion about this? Maybe also make it easier for people to get unvouched if they play consistently bad or refuse to teamplay etc? Your logic is that skill and teamplay would reduce the amount of flame, so maybe that can work?

[dweiler]

If someone is 4k value ea hydra and can't go mid on 15 vs zxv, I'm gonna give him advice on how to build next time we play together. If you're consistently over pushing, missing sends, ignoring teammates then players will tilt towards you and "flame".

First point about advising, obviously this is fine. In fact it is what we want.

Second point, if you communicate in a normal way with your allies, I have never experienced that people are unwilling to cooperate with you. If you have any cases where people ignore any normal teamplay when you try to communicate in a normal, cooperative way, then show it to me, because that is as much against everything we stand for in LIHL as people flaming others when they make a mistake (in the other's eyes).

My point is that some people take away the fun and ability to play normal in LIHL, because instead of communicating with their allies so that they can teamplay better, they are controlling, flaming, pretty much raging when people don't follow their way. This will lead to people not willing to teamplay because they are bossed around, et cetera, which makes you mad again. This has worsened over the last seasons for sure, being controlling and flaming to someone not playing so well has 'normalized' when it should not have.

Instead of flaming and raging, try to teamplay in a normal way, and you can report any player who is unwilling to teamplay if you communicate normally, just as they can report you if you are acting like a dickhead because they are worse players than you.

[FadingSuns]

@tinsoldier I just read a great article of what different perspectives should have a great leader (FORBES), ofc its based on business and work but when i was reading it i did just remember what you wrote on ur post. Here are some:

1 - Have Faith in Their Beliefs
2 - Make the Hard Choice
3 - Earn the Respect of the Team
4 - Know the Team
5 - Know That the People are the Key to Success
6 - Articulate a Clear Vision
7 - Push People to Be Their Best

I know u already got some of these characteristics but you should maybe reflex on that making ur team cooperating with the same goal can be much easier if u do number 3, 5and 7 by not pushing ppl to the limit. I can imagine some other "leaders" of lihl that no need to be rude to achieve the goal, such as 1007 or Ilocos for example, they earn respect and ppl is whiling to listen to them and follow them because they are not as aggressive as you are.

You think you are perfect and you no need to change ur poing of view, ppl should adapt to you instead you to people, and thats one of the biggest mistakes a leader can do. I guess you already know all this what im saying, just felt i wanted to comment this on this topic. Im sure there are different and better ways than ur aggresive way of doing things.

[TinSoldier]

Second point, if you communicate in a normal way with your allies, I have never experienced that people are unwilling to cooperate with you. If you have any cases where people ignore any normal teamplay when you try to communicate in a normal, cooperative way, then show it to me, because that is as much against everything we stand for in LIHL as people flaming others when they make a mistake (in the other's eyes).

(02:56 / Allied) TinSoldier: ????
(02:56 / Allied) artmas: ==;;
(02:57 / Allied) TinSoldier: xD
(03:00 / Allied) SupremeBeing: good tip i give u
(03:01 / Allied) TinSoldier: why u didnt send then haha
(03:08 / Allied) SupremeBeing: never listen to pro tinny tit
(03:11 / Allied) artmas: i w8 ur call
(03:37 / Allied) SupremeBeing: why we wll w8 a call the big mouth i no idea

"Once TinSoldier wanted to unvouch me cause I made GOD in same line in grizzly for 7. He shouted I shall God in front. Till today I make God same line with rizzzly for 7 even though many players still harrasing me for this. I hold this way lvl 7 and do not give a f.uck about that harras."

Sadly the replay is too old for me to go check the lobbby chat, but this is the type of player i am referring to, that makes it difficult to have a calm and mannered game. Yeah the replay is old, but the vouch request is not, and you can tell that he carries the same attitude forward and feels he can brag about his ability to ignore advice.

Heres another thing, that replay, and this one

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=117554

are the only games i played with this player in 1.5 year period. BOTH games he misses a send...when the call is clearly made... and both times he is defensive about it, not owning up to his mistake or even apologizing like the first game lol.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=118354

and then i have to see this shit happen, after all the drama. So when i read your post Mick, its really meaningless to me because your words and actions don't match.

@fadingsuns i have many times said i am not perfect, i rage, i flame etc. but despite my flaw i still think i have positive impact on LIHL, if that aint the case then let ppl ask for my unvouch the same way they got eldryan out.

[FateStayNight]

I dont see that big issues either tbh. Even in the games im involved maybe 1 out of 20 games is report worthy in terms of flame/rage.
And tbh do you want a league without any emotions?
I used to say Lihl is kinda like a group of people, which meet for soccer in the evening, while the game there might be some emotions which leads to some fights and disagreements but when the game is done, they have a drink and make jokes.

[Mind]

I used to say Lihl is kinda like a group of people, which meet for soccer in the evening, while the game there might be some emotions which leads to some fights and disagreements but when the game is done, they have a drink and make jokes.

thats why im still waiting for you to invite me to a drink!!!!111

[iamyoursenpai]

I dont see that big issues either tbh. Even in the games im involved maybe 1 out of 20 games is report worthy in terms of flame/rage.
And tbh do you want a league without any emotions?
I used to say Lihl is kinda like a group of people, which meet for soccer in the evening, while the game there might be some emotions which leads to some fights and disagreements but when the game is done, they have a drink and make jokes.

But the difference is, that you're first draft in lihl and Last one in soccer