Things need to change

[epicdeath]

I reckon there are a few problems with your everyone to trial mesh but I'm just gonna list the biggest two in my mind.

1. Time investment.
There are 70 players that have been active so far this season. At the end of the three months when mods have to decide who is revouched or not they will need to watch multiple replays to judge the skill/attitude of each person. Reviews by peers CANNOT be taken as objective truth.

Lets suggest that 5 recent, random replays (complementing replays posted on threads) are enough to make a decision. That adds up to 350 replays. Idk about you or the current mods but I would not be keen to slog through that.

2. Popularity.
It also cannot be argued that the mods would only need to watch good/bad replays provided by other players. Lets be honest, nobody's gonna go out of their way to drop a bad replay on tariq or anda's thread. However, a less popular player is more likely to receive negative replays despite them (presumably) playing at a similar level to others who aren't hit with replays where they tk/make a mistake.

Cheers

[Crey]

I agree with Anda, 2 ways of solving this problem: 1st way is when mods have the power to unvouch someone without any proving information (we all know who is under lihl skill lvl, who needs a break and new vouch request after) and 2nd way when you guys help us with reporting bad replays and when we collect the enough amount then we can unvouch a person (gonna take a lot of time to collect all replays). In my opinion, need to be more strict and decide faster, because im tired of seeing people dodjing other people which kills the lihl mood as a league.

My suggestion is to let us mods make the list of players who we think are under required skill lvl and we want them to make a break and reapply later with new replays that show their skill again, post it and let the community talk about it together. Frankly speaking there are also some people in lihl atm that i dont like personally, because their skill lvl doesnt fit even 1200 players (idk how they were vouched). So i want to finally change the atmosphere in lihl and make it great again as it was before. It is the time already when we cant be polite with everyone and if we need to unvouch some people that dont belong to lihl skillwise i would do it without doubts.

[supersexyy]

All I'm hearing is "I'm really good and everyone should listen to me, but my stats are low due to some unknown circumstances".

We need to clarify if we are all equal here as LTD players. Are we all equal or not ? Thats the main question.

Those "evil lists" and crap, thats not objective things, thats personal opinions.

The only "objective" way to unvouch people is based on their Elo and win rate. And that would, funnily, also hit you and meshtar

You mean like a... unvouch formula??

[Meshtar]

I reckon there are a few problems with your everyone to trial mesh but I'm just gonna list the biggest two in my mind.

1. Time investment.
There are 70 players that have been active so far this season. At the end of the three months when mods have to decide who is revouched or not they will need to watch multiple replays to judge the skill/attitude of each person. Reviews by peers CANNOT be taken as objective truth.

Lets suggest that 5 recent, random replays (complementing replays posted on threads) are enough to make a decision. That adds up to 350 replays. Idk about you or the current mods but I would not be keen to slog through that.

2. Popularity.
It also cannot be argued that the mods would only need to watch good/bad replays provided by other players. Lets be honest, nobody's gonna go out of their way to drop a bad replay on tariq or anda's thread. However, a less popular player is more likely to receive negative replays despite them (presumably) playing at a similar level to others who aren't hit with replays where they tk/make a mistake.

Cheers

Maybe I wasn't clear enough how this would work. Mods wouldn't look at 5 random replays and decide. They will auto-vouch anyone in whose thread there aren't enough replays posted, proving he is tk. From the 70 players you mention, I assume like 50 will be auto-vouched cause no one will post replays proving they aren't competent. Also, they won't have to review those 20 people all at once, they can review a replay when its actually posted and then just keep a count, so at the end of 3 months most people are auto-vouched. People for whom there isn't enough replays or evidence isn't conclusive are also vouched, but people who have enough replays that prove their poor ability and bad attitude will be unvouched. The review of the peers does work in this case because its public, everyone can see the replays and see their arguments and provide counter-arguments. Review of the peers is also how you become phd

[Vendeta]

To be honest, i like this 5 reply solution. But it should be like most recent reply's. Every single person in lihl does tk from time to time. So it should be like if you gather someones 5 tk reply's from last like 10-15 games, and all 5 of them are actually tk - immediatly back on trial.

[FadingSuns]

This is all pure bs.The fken list was way more objetive

[Anda]

If u think elo is that much objective, lets unvouch bot 10 at the end of the season.

Wouldnt be laughing too hard if id constantly be struggling to stay out of that group

[Vendeta]

If u think elo is that much objective, lets unvouch bot 10 at the end of the season.

Wouldnt be laughing too hard if id constantly be struggling to stay out of that group

Since mods doesnt review reports on our current unvouch procedure, what else do we have

[Anda]

If u think elo is that much objective, lets unvouch bot 10 at the end of the season.

Wouldnt be laughing too hard if id constantly be struggling to stay out of that group

Since mods doesnt review reports on our current unvouch procedure, what else do we have

Thats a misconception btw, i and im sure i speak for other mods aswell, always look at replays n feedback we get. We discuss actively about players all the time, and we speak with the persons we get complaints about. Its not like we aint doing anything when we dont get the 5 replays we have agreed on.

As i said, i was a great supporter of the List idea, just the way it was handled is wrong.I believe we have enough capable players in moderation to make an as fair and objectice decision as can be at this moment. We also wouldnt unvouch people without a warning or chance to improve or ever to return, its not like wed roll heads over night.
The formula with the 5 replays hinders us moderators in doing what we believe is the right thing to do as much as it does the community.

You simply cannot have it both ways.
You either trust moderation enough or you dont to make hard decisions.

[Vendeta]

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=131418

[BoretkPanda]

https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=131418

?

[Meshtar]

I really think my idea would work, but I don't see much support for it to put it mildly
I am not a fan of moderator approach to the problem but even that I think is a step forward towards resolving this issue that has been lingering from before I was vouched. So I will !support the proposition for moderators to deal with this from now on. I hope you can start things moving at least.

[Wolke]

This post leads to nothing. Just mimimi are we not equal..i am under 1k elo for 17236 season cause of permanent tk from others.

[Meshtar]

I did ask for people not to throw jabs and random flames but to respond with arguments and constructive opinions. I know that is hard in this community, but give it a try, its in the best interest of lihl.

[KiwiLeKiller]

I just wonder who this report is about?

Also, the replays procedure for reports is pretty nice and all (actually not) but mods need to actually take a look at them... Last time I reported someone was JoeSakic and it was locked and dismissed totally without any outcone whatsoever. Also, mods should actually watch them in a decent delay, because as for now, we have 5 mods and last report made was 1007 reporting MindMachine, the report sat in the forums for weeks before being processed, the replay not being reviewed because of a new patch.

If we, players, need to make an effort to gather replays, mods should make an effort to review them in an adequate amount of time at least.

Anyway, I like Crey's idea not to need reports/replays to unvouch someone, after all we all know who needs to be unvouched.