2x leaver

[Kreutertee]

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10015912

Meshtar 21

Fana 23 or 24.

[dweiler]

For @Meshtarius , I believe he genuinely had to go and miscalculated his time. In this case, I think he got enough of a penalty for losing the game. However, we will unvouch him for 1 day as a warning and reminder for everyone to not sign when you are not sure if you can finish (a long) game. We did pause, but having to go after 50 minutes is really a poor judgment, you should always count on that it can go to level 31.

@Fanatismo1 , you cannot just leave your allies behind like that because you give up, when the rest want to play. I judge this more heavily than Meshtar, but since he asked if he can leave and no answer from moderators, I won't see it as a full ragequit. 2 days for Fanatismo

[Meshtar]

I don't mind the unvouch, although I must say I don't quite get the rules. So if I stayed silent and unplugged my internet cable and later said "damn I am sorry, I lost my internet connection for a while, I would just get the -18 dc penalty and no unvouch, but if I am honest and say I really must go and people aren't mannered enough to draw or whatever I get the unvouch for 1, 2 or more days?
Man it sucks to be honest, here, same as everywhere else

[nukid]

he also asked for draw when tin was afk for around 10 mins, if im not mistaken he can force the !draw after 5mins right? but we all just ignored it xD.
so i think noneed ban

[HazarDous]

he also asked for draw when tin was afk for around 10 mins, if im not mistaken he can force the !draw after 5mins right? but we all just ignored it xD.
so i think noneed ban

Yeah, you need to explicitly ask for it, though, and while the player is still afk. Regardless, and I'm sure Mick agrees, just appeal and we will lift the ban @meshtar

[dweiler]

I don't mind the unvouch, although I must say I don't quite get the rules. So if I stayed silent and unplugged my internet cable and later said "damn I am sorry, I lost my internet connection for a while, I would just get the -18 dc penalty and no unvouch, but if I am honest and say I really must go and people aren't mannered enough to draw or whatever I get the unvouch for 1, 2 or more days?
Man it sucks to be honest, here, same as everywhere else

The reason you did not get a DC-penalty now, was that it was after 20 and the game was played out (which can only happen after 20 since draws aren't compulsory then anymore). If you DCed without saying anything you would also have gotten an unvouch time, so nothing would be different.

Also if you fake a DC before level 20 and we would find out, you get unvouch time. Of course, the second question is how do we know if the dc is genuine or not, but since you can get your entire punishment away by appealing if you left for a good reason, and you cannot appeal a DC, I don't think it is worth faking DC where you always get -18 elo and risking the longer unvouch with it.

Edit: Since the replay server is broken on that game, I also added it here from my saved replays, in case you want to watch back exactly what happened.

[Meshtar]

. If you DCed without saying anything you would also have gotten an unvouch time, so nothing would be different.

So all those guys that dc-ed and got just the -elo all said something like "Arrgh I am about to dc!"

If you suddenly dc, how can you get a chance to actually say anything? All this stuff is so contradictory and just shows that rules are arbitrary at best.
Anyway, the whole point of me posting here was just to point that out, nothing else.

Ah yea, also the fact that it sucks to be the nice guy, but I am sure you know that already

[dweiler]

So all those guys that dc-ed and got just the -elo all said something like "Arrgh I am about to dc!"

If you suddenly dc, how can you get a chance to actually say anything? All this stuff is so contradictory and just shows that rules are arbitrary at best.
Anyway, the whole point of me posting here was just to point that out, nothing else.

Ah yea, also the fact that it sucks to be the nice guy, but I am sure you know that already

No, I am sorry but those conclusions you make don't make any sense. Dc before lvl 20 = draw + dc-penalty. Leave before lvl 20 = draw + dc-penalty + unvouch.
DC after lvl 20 = game can be played out + unvouch time, leave after 20 = game can be played out + unvouch time.

Leaving is appealable, dc not, so if you have legitimate reason to go, your dc-penalty + unvouch if you leave can be nullified.

You did not get treated any worse for being a 'nice guy', in fact if you just appealed instead of complaining about bad rules which aren't there you would have played already again.

[bezdak]

Dc before lvl 20 = draw + dc-penalty. Leave before lvl 20 = draw + dc-penalty + unvouch.
DC after lvl 20 = game can be played out + unvouch time, leave after 20 = game can be played out + unvouch time.

Leaving is appealable, dc not, so if you have legitimate reason to go, your dc-penalty + unvouch if you leave can be nullified.

This should be pinned somewhere, makes much more sense than reading the rules - there is no penalty for dc after 20 nor an emergency leave mentioned...

[dweiler]

This should be pinned somewhere, makes much more sense than reading the rules - there is no penalty for dc after 20 nor an emergency leave mentioned...

You are right, when I look at the rule section, it is pretty outdated and not comprehensive. I will try to use some free time the next days to update stuff.

[Meshtar]

So all those guys that dc-ed and got just the -elo all said something like "Arrgh I am about to dc!"

If you suddenly dc, how can you get a chance to actually say anything? All this stuff is so contradictory and just shows that rules are arbitrary at best.
Anyway, the whole point of me posting here was just to point that out, nothing else.

Ah yea, also the fact that it sucks to be the nice guy, but I am sure you know that already

No, I am sorry but those conclusions you make don't make any sense. Dc before lvl 20 = draw + dc-penalty. Leave before lvl 20 = draw + dc-penalty + unvouch.
DC after lvl 20 = game can be played out + unvouch time, leave after 20 = game can be played out + unvouch time.

Leaving is appealable, dc not, so if you have legitimate reason to go, your dc-penalty + unvouch if you leave can be nullified.

You did not get treated any worse for being a 'nice guy', in fact if you just appealed instead of complaining about bad rules which aren't there you would have played already again.

The purpose of my "complaint" wasn't to get revouched before my penalty runs out. If I wanted to do that I would simply do as most others do and write something like "I am sorry, I will try not to do it again etc " and I am pretty sure I would be revouched very fast. I didn't appeal because I follow certain principles. I would have nothing more to say in my appeal compared to what I said in game. I simply had to go, I even said feel free to pp me. I know its my fault for taking that very small risk that game might not end in 20 levels time+ that 10 mins pause time we waited for Tin. All fine. What I do have a problem with is that every mod rules about things in an arbitrary way more or less. Not because they want to do it, but because rules are very vague about many things. For example the stuff you just mentioned above simply doesn't exist anywhere in written rules. The fact that someone who disconnects from game (unintentionally) before lvl 20 gets dc penalty if reported, but a player who disconnects after lvl 20 (unintentionally) gets unvouched if he gets reported is simply ludicrous. Why would you penalize a player with unvouch if he disconnects after 20, but no unvouch if his disconnect happened before 20?! I simply don't see any logic there. I am not talking about ragequits here of course , just the disconnect due to genuine internet problems. By the way, rules, vague as they are and as I understand them, cover only unintentional disconnects and ragequits, no mention of leaving the game for emergency and without intention to ruin the game or any other unsportsmanlike behavior.

You can choose to see my posts as complaints and attacks or maybe as a way to iron out rules for the future cases. That is entirely up to you. But I certainly am not behaving like a disgruntled player here, I think I proved that with posts on most other topics that didn't concern me at all. I simply want to make sense of certain actions and to be able to predict future outcomes if this happens again to me or anyone else.

[dweiler]

Well, it is not in the rules, because we don't have any punishment on there? Because we give different heights of punishments depending on the situation, who did it, how often, if it even gets reported, et cetera. Maybe that is vague to you, but we cannot do it any different than this. For example, we could state in a rulebook: 'leaving for a legitimate reason does not get a penalty', then people can leave anytime if they say they have a legitimate reason. If we say 'leaving for a legitimate reason is 2 days unvouch' it would be unfair for people who really genuinely have some emergency. So we keep some freedom for the moderator to judge a situation well.

For example here, I didn't give DC-penalty because the game was played out. It's a bit ridiculous to give you -15 for the loss and an additional -21 for leaving. So I only gave you an unvouch time. To me that is a ruling based on common sense, I would find it much stranger if you got both the loss and even more Elo substracted + unvouch time (which I would give in any case of someone leaving, to deter others from signing if they are not sure if they have the time).

[Meshtar]

If you take my example, I was already unvouched twice both times being my first offense after a good amount of games played. Haza told me himself he would have warned me only in this particular case. Ace was actually pissed off about people reporting players for having to leave due to real life situations. I think he would actually warn the reporter in this case
The whole point of my posts was you are intent on keeping your moderator "freedom of choice" and thus keeping penalties very arbitrary. Its obvious to everyone here that you, Haza and Ace are very different when it comes to how harsh you rule different things and thus it all comes to plain luck who of you three will handle the report. It is very likely that the rulings from the three of you will be very different in most cases and I really don't see how is that fair for lihl players. You can make this very simple and make this and every other rule violation an automatic penalty, same for every player, IF and only IF it gets reported, no other mitigating factor. So if people wanna forgive something to someone cause of objective circumstances they can simply not report it. This is an in-house league of selected players who are decent enough to know how to act on these things right?
The way it is done now it feels like a kindergarten with teachers with different criteria punishing the kids as they see fit.

[dweiler]

Okay, I see your point. I will make such a rulebook (we have an outdated one) and publish it, so we can finetune it and see if that is the way we want to go.