Supreme unvouch

[KiwiLeKiller]

Perma unvouch makes U no friend to me and not rly fair. I have 0 replays of U... yet

It's not by having friends that you will stay here, it's by having the skills and attitude required to. Having replays of Magic TK will also not get you any further as it is YOUR skills this request is about.

[Crazy_Skeleton]

As for me it s all bullshit not worth my keyboard + time.
For sure I win about 50% of all games in every seasson cause no skillz. *this seasson below 50% though

[TinSoldier]

Lol the elo system is flawed as hell and should not be taken into account with any high degree, as stated unless your playing multiple games a day and 200-300 games a season its not going to show your true skill level with any accuracy. The league is dominated by 1 caller on either team most of the time anyway so he can easily get carried to a positive or 50/50 win ratio when he plays 100 games over 3 months, otherwise lihl section can be removed and we just auto vouch 1200 players with xx elo.

Also let's put to rest this notion that I want you unvouched because I hate you. No, I hate you because your garbage at LTD and too arrogant to acknowledge the issue or recognize that you need to accept advice to improve. If you go back to your vouch request, I was actually (REGRETFULLY) ONE OF THE SUPPORTERS. Because on 1200 you were eager to learn and ask questions. Now in lihl your a dumbass who can't even focus for 30 seconds to send on a level. Sure people can miss sends. But why is it CONSISTENTLY you missing sends in 30% of your games whether its an early send lvl 2, or sending Dino's lvl 7, or completely missing sends on 15.

Like really you wanna act like you got skills cause you got 50% win rate lmao go and make challenge only you can call and we can see you beat dongs record for 200 elo

And yes anda, I been here much longer than you and so has supreme so I am able to see first hand his lack of development and his consistent TK every game. Meshtar you been here like 2 months U tend to think you are always in possesion of the thruth and you pretend to be a Tinsoldier 2.0 but really you havent been here long enough to know who is truly garbage. I'll take three Halps trying to snipe king from me 10/10 over 1 supremekurwa

[Crazy_Skeleton]

ONLY IN NOVEMBER!! there were like 18 unvouch requests for tk reasons mostly.
But U admins keep big debates if I have skills for the lihl, cause accidently once a few months I do something wrong, recently = missed 15 send.
I rly think U guys should reconsider the bullshit is going vs me here.

[nukid]

well, i usually keep silent when it comes to skilldiscussions, vouches and unvouches n blabla BUT, u gotta start set an example if u dont want dis league to become weaker than its supposed 2 be.

its great that the actvivity is so high lately sure... but the quality of game have reduced quite abit....
lets be real, ranz #1 aint gonner happen with highqualitygames... xD
there been lots of new vouches lately, which i still call myself (dont worry) and there is a worrysome ammount of people that do not give a shiet about advices and stuff including some older players,,,,

soooooooooooo, i think we need a real racist moderator aka tin or nore to get this shiet more challenging again!!(or another way to make people be more interested in improving their skillset somehow!!)

[Crazy_Skeleton]

well, i usually keep silent when it comes to skilldiscussions, vouches and unvouches n blabla BUT, u gotta start set an example if u dont want dis league to become weaker than its supposed 2 be.

its great that the actvivity is so high lately sure... but the quality of game have reduced quite abit....
lets be real, ranz #1 aint gonner happen with highqualitygames... xD
there been lots of new vouches lately, which i still call myself (dont worry) and there is a worrysome ammount of people that do not give a shiet about advices and stuff including some older players,,,,

soooooooooooo, i think we need a real racist moderator aka tin or nore to get this shiet more challenging again!!(or another way to make people be more interested in improving their skillset somehow!!)

I am sorry, but here is the request of my perma unvouch cause my skills r the worst in lihl, it is not a post of how lihl is doing and how to improve. And Ur post did not say if u r against or for.

[FadingSuns]

@crazy_skeleton you are the person with more complaints abd report against on u in all lihl. Moreover we have warned you like 5 or 6 times in the past 3 months?. We are not debating here if ur the worst lihl player skill basis. We are debating if u should get a perma unvouch (or any other penalty) based on several parameters, skill is just one of them. So pls dont lose the focus on the overall topic and on the rationale behind all this.

We know and we are aware that there are players lower skilled than u, however we dont get the amount or reports/complaints on them that we get on u... Its clear you need to fix some aspects, we have warned you several times and we (or i at least) dont see much improvements on you after that many warnings.

This means not much, ur case is atm on a deep debate among lihl moderation and we havent get an agreement yet on what to do, but be sure u can expect something to be done. I would advixe u (again) to stay focused on the game and to stop ur random hardcore tk games that u do from time to time. Btw my view on this is that u hardcore tk too often lately, but i dont think its due to ur low skill (wich makes the tk even more annoying) but ur lack of attention/interest on some games.

Decission is still pending as i said.

[iamyoursenpai]

I have no doubts that Supreme sometimes has issues skillwise and of course its just my subjective opinion, but i never ever had a problem with him attitudewise. I think that Supreme is a guy, who would listen to calls of improvement if you communicate it friendly. Imagine anybody else being in the situation of getting bashed most of the games. I always talked friendly to supreme and he always reacted friendly and wasn't arrogant at all in order to adept well-argumented thoughts about improvement. If you want to unvouch him, we for sure need transparent parameters which are applicable to ANY Player of the league. Everything else would be Anarchy.
XOXO Gossip Girl

[FadingSuns]

It depends on what u interpretate as behavour issues... he insults ppl? no he doesnt, he is actually nice mannered on that aspect. But let me put an example of a game we played within last 3 months.

We were op rolls all (lets say 1 ygg, 1 harlot after free rr and one mutant), we didnt need a holder and he had free rr, he haf bears and was told to free rr (before lvl 1starts) since we not in danger on lvl 5 or 7 but we were kinda bad lvl 8. His response was "never" (we lost a heal on 8). Ok, his right so far. He free rr on lvl 9 and get ea blaster lod. We ask him that we need anti 12 since we lost a pair of heals on lvl 10 (imagine if he free rred on lvl 1, we could be perfectly 0 heals lost instead 3 at this point, lvl 7 was never a risk). Team demands anti 12 we extremely need it, so we ask him to plz go eas or blaster, he agains says "never" and he get lods. We lost that game on lvl 12.

What do i think about this game? is this skill issue? behave issue? intentional tk? unfocus issue?. However u classify this, this CANT happen on lihl, moreover when he doing this kind of performance more than often.

Its almost impossible to stablish fixed parameters for all, transparency is nice, but what u ask make no much sense. Each player is different, his "cumulative" history on lihl is different, we for sure will explain detailed why someone get unvouched but thats it...

[Tom_hardy]

I really try to stay out of this kind of stuff, but i feel like I shouldnt. We dont always play at the same times, but i think we played enough together to have an opinion about this. First of all I never minded you on my team, even though I witnessed occasional tk. Most of this happened in complete silence, without announcing or asking anything. And that is the thing I would ask from you, if you are not completely sure whats the best way of your line to contribute to the teamgoals, just ask, or at the very least announce what your plan is, so it can be discussed. And obviously never miss sends, its quite the no go and shouldnt happen, especially at lvl 15. That being said, I dont support your unvouch. Im not sure what exactly Tin experienced with you, but I didnt on that level. And I know, in the middle age he would be super succesful at leading witchhunts, which could explain the amount of reports to a certain amount, but i cant tell, people are entitled to their opinions. Unvouching certain players might be beneficial to the league, im not certain, yet I did experience an increase in skillgap and weird decisions. But if we do, its unreasonable for me to not start with the bottom. Saying there are worse People or not doesnt matter is not true. In every league, whenever a team loses its spot in a league, its because they were the worst, relative to the members of the league. Yes, the only way to measure this is by elo, and yes, you are only 1 line of 4 and calls are the most important part for a team to suceed. Regardless, your line DOES contribute, and your decisionmaking DOES have an impact on the game. If not, why even bother with this, he cannot make you lose anyway, right? Thats why, after enough games played, and with some fluctuation, elo does indeed tell something about your "laneskill" at least. if not, what the fuck are we even doing here?

Edit: about the mentioned stubborness to the Teams wishes, I cant tell, though I dont remember specific cases myself. Of course you dont have to obey everything, but in the given situation, cooperation is obviously beneficial, and if you dont agree, at least elaborate why you think your decision is superior.

[FadingSuns]

Tom

1) regarding start on bottom. Its not exactly about it, there are bottom players that never had a report or complaints against them. So its not unvouch someone based on 1 single aspect but a cumulationnof many aspects. We will not start unvouch "low skilled" players when noone has ever express a complaint about him. Makes no sense.

2) i dont think elo is a clear picture of someones skill. Not many seasons ago didnt tin end with 1k elo or close? should we state everyplayer with bigger elo was better?. Elo is a parameter and can be an indicator. But doesnt mean much itself alone. I even like more the win % than the elo. Its not same to have 800 with 50 games played (35% win rate) than having it with 600 games played (47% win rate)

[Tom_hardy]

Both elo and win % dont work until you have at least 200-300 games played, due to the big random factor in this game(rolls, kingskill, creepspawn, sendsplit), as well as three teammates. But all these are fairly given with the same percentage each game. Statistically it is clear, that after enough games played, These random factors cancel each other out. "Luck" gets eliminated. You are right that a few lucky games in the end can boost your elo too much, but lets say you play 600 games, and you take your average elo of the last 100 games(which we should btw) its gonna be a pretty good estimate of your skill, same with the win %. If whatever elo at the end of the season is not accurate, it can only mean you didnt play enough games, or just had a lucky, unlucky streak in the end, but like i said, that should be averaged over the last x amount of games anyway. The only other explanation would be that People with different skills play at different times, but thats hard to generalize.

Edit: it should also be noted that value elo season x Not equal value elo season y. Its your estimate relative to the other players skills of that season, weighed with their activity. But i guess thats obvious.

[Meshtar]

Well, other people don't get reported most of the time that is true. But it is not because there is no reason for the report. I have seen builds that you would hardly see on ent18 and when I said these words exactly
"Thats an interesting build X player" I got a reply quoting
"Wtf, you think you can teach ME??!!"
It happens all the time from other players, the same tk combo that Ace explained - poor skill combined with total stubborness and refusal to listen to any friendly advice. Most people just let it go and don't want to report it or to make a fuss and just start dodging those players.

Here we just have repeated reports from Tin who is trying hard to get Supreme unvouched while at the same time constantly triggering Supreme with foul language. Sure, occasionally someone else posts a report against Supreme, but also against some other people.
Just for the record, I am not trying to be nice here at all costs, I can see Supreme has problematic builds and doesn't always listen to advice even if its not given in a bad way, but so do numerous other players.

Maybe Tin is right, maybe that is the way to go in lihl, to unvouch people who don't belong here skillwise and are also unwilling to learn or to accept advice. I see plenty of people who simply dodge certain lobbies just to avoid those kind of players. I am also sure some players would like to have better quality games by getting rid of people who ruin the gaming experience for them. That is all 100% legit for me. The only thing that is total bullshit is making it look like Supreme is the isolated case or that he is even the worst case (maybe he is, that is up to the community to decide) so this all looks like a witch-hunt as Tom already said

[FadingSuns]

Well be sure that the last person im taking into account when im reviewing this case is Tin. Im not that idiot... im smart enought to know there is ppl that have personal issues and report each other for pure hate, I got it clear that Tin would report things on Supreme that he wouldnt on other players, ofc i take into account who is the reporter and who is the reported person, and i always try to put myself on the shoes of each one. I think i got good knowledge of every lihl member as a player and as a person, i know u all good enought to wonder what are ur intentions when you report someone.

In supreme case, Tin appart. Its me telling you that he overtk a lot lately, how many ppl have i reported since im lihl? I have done exactly 2 reports in my life: 1) to avada for random sell all his line without team agreement when he wanted to sell since lvl 1. 2) i reported Ship for pure toxic player in general. Thats all my reporting history. I got nothing towards Supreme, even more, i might be the person who has defended him more in lihl. Is magic (the reporter on this case) a person known to report players due to skill? is magic the kind of person that gets tittled for 1 game and autoreport ppl asking unvouch? anyone here thinks that? or might be that magic has reached a point where he is fully fed up of continuos random tks by supreme?.

The only way to get someone unvoched is because he is reported. Full stop. If other ppk is not reported and just dodged is not my issue man, do ur part of the work and report the fkem tkers. We are not gona review 200000 games a seasonnin order to try chas low skilled ppl. This needs to come from community members. Why is supreme the most issue person in lihl? is it becaude i say it randomly or maybe cuz he got frequently reports from different ppl asking unvouch?.

Appart of thid, us mods recieve private feedback and complaints in private chat on discord or private mssgs on forum of different players. Guess who is on top of that categoriw too? yes its supreme.

Appart of it, mods also give personal warnigns ingame, forums or private conversations to some players. Guess who is on top of that TOO? supreme

So this is not a random and unfair witch hunt. There is a real problem with many and different players of this community and him.

Regarding tin again. We also have warned tin several times about his chasing attitude and languaje towards supreme, abd be sure that he is really so close to eat a long (or perma even) ban for this. We wont benefit tin just cuz he is good,. he is really playing with fire and will get burned if continues.

[Meshtar]

Well, ok I won't pretend that I am as well informed about Supreme's case as the mods are, so yeah if you say he has been reported by other people too then obviously something needs to be done. I can only speak from my own experience and I never had a particularly tk game with him.
If this ball starts rolling though, there will be plenty more cases, some of them about season 1 players I think.
Either way, after all that has been said i believe you will reach a fair decision so we can resolve this drama and go on