Clog

[Vendeta]

Cloging takes all the "luck" out of the game. Same as making autoheals on 1200 bot, or equal sends. Let the game play itself !

[Jamo]

Get off your high horse Tin, there is no need to insult anyone here with this shit talking on lower skilled players and the one who doesn't want to adapt to changes is currently you . If you all like it, fine, leave it as it is. But watch lihl, people go play 2s all the time to avoid those shit games, don't tell me this is what you all prefer, I don't believe it. And it's not like balancing and adjustments doesn't happen in other games like you imply with your general LTD players statement. I would try to find a solution by changing the map instead of implementing specific rules. Metas have changed over and over with new versions of the map, so this is the natural thing to do imo and also create new game styles, so your cry babies still have to adjust to new things. Balance towers more, add dmg to creeps if 60+ leak to king, speed them up, avoid collisions or even make Demons unsendable on 15 or whatever. The map has changed so much since v1, and all because of "cry babies"? Nothing good came out of it? Only for noobfriendly changes for the low skilled? I doubt it...

[FadingSuns]

I 200% agree with Tin. Wont add a single Word to what he said. Gj.

[thor_god]

I agree with Vendeta, if clog becomes the new meta it will ruin LTD IMO.

[lupin]

Another clog on Mega, look like 1200+ bot players practice on their ALT accounts.

Spoiler!

West team was clogged, but teal refuse to cooperate at the beginning. But they are all clog afterwards.

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=8677390

[CreativeLP]

I don't really see the bigger picture here, are we talking about leaking hard 4,5,6 to get time for 7?

That has always been a valid strategy and it always had counters. But if the enemy team doesn't react, then there is no counter. Can't play every LegionTD game as if it's the same, that's the problem some people have.


The bigger problem has always been clogging on a racing level like 15 although broud3rs map has fixed it a lot already, so that you even have the chance to win with less heals than the enemy.

[aRt)Y]

The issue you guys dont seem to understand is that ENT can hardly look on such micro-level to define rules. We would prefer to Keep rules without "level x and value z". You will have to learn to argue on a macro-level.

[elokiller]

if clog on early level is so easy to counter maybe explain how? so people can adapt to it?

lets say I have a team with units who wanna do a straight 7 send, what am I supposed to call when I see enemy team leaking 90 units to king on 5/6 with full reg king.

[milfhunter96]

I dont know in wich version it was, but there was a ltd version where your wisps lumber gaining rate slowed down when you are leaking. Maybe set up sth like if you leak >75% of wave your lumber gained decreased by 50% or sth like this.
About a rule, maybe sth like "do not push/keep gold on hand/sell if you leaked >50% of wave" So engi would be able to full push for 5 but he has to build for 6(or any other hard yolo unit). So leaking is ok as long you are not pushing to much and you can only push /9 if you are not suicided

[matdas]

I dont know in wich version it was, but there was a ltd version where your wisps lumber gaining rate slowed down when you are leaking. Maybe set up sth like if you leak >75% of wave your lumber gained decreased by 50% or sth like this.
About a rule, maybe sth like "do not push/keep gold on hand/sell if you leaked >50% of wave" So engi would be able to full push for 5 but he has to build for 6(or any other hard yolo unit). So leaking is ok as long you are not pushing to much and you can only push /9 if you are not suicided

The version where the wisps were workers. The mode was -fm (funny mode). Whenever you leaked more than 5 creeps past the green line, a worker died.

[aRt)Y]

I dont know in wich version it was, but there was a ltd version where your wisps lumber gaining rate slowed down when you are leaking. Maybe set up sth like if you leak >75% of wave your lumber gained decreased by 50% or sth like this.
About a rule, maybe sth like "do not push/keep gold on hand/sell if you leaked >50% of wave" So engi would be able to full push for 5 but he has to build for 6(or any other hard yolo unit). So leaking is ok as long you are not pushing to much and you can only push /9 if you are not suicided

The version where the wisps were workers. The mode was -fm (funny mode). Whenever you leaked more than 5 creeps past the green line, a worker died.

Despite its name, wouldn't the mode work? It's "judged" by the map and punishes clogging immediately.

[matdas]

I dont know in wich version it was, but there was a ltd version where your wisps lumber gaining rate slowed down when you are leaking. Maybe set up sth like if you leak >75% of wave your lumber gained decreased by 50% or sth like this.
About a rule, maybe sth like "do not push/keep gold on hand/sell if you leaked >50% of wave" So engi would be able to full push for 5 but he has to build for 6(or any other hard yolo unit). So leaking is ok as long you are not pushing to much and you can only push /9 if you are not suicided

The version where the wisps were workers. The mode was -fm (funny mode). Whenever you leaked more than 5 creeps past the green line, a worker died.

Despite its name, wouldn't the mode work? It's "judged" by the map and punishes clogging immediately.

It's in a previous mode, back when you could build as many workers as you wanted. I wouldn't suggest it for this version, though it would prevent all sorts of problems. Such as building to hold all waves, less leaking, less lumber, more value.

Actually after typing that, it would suit the map well....

Edit: unsure how the community would react. It would create all sorts of problems to counter OP rolls.

[milfhunter96]

Well or if you dont want to change the map, maybe a rule like "do not send more lumber than your value is" would help too

[dweiler]

I would try to find a solution by changing the map instead of implementing specific rules.

I agree most with this statement. We are playing a map that is made by some enthusiastics, not a gaming company with millions of dollars to spend. That has its downsides, for example that the map is not perfect. It's a flawed map, which is part of the fun, but also part of the annoyance. I see so many people blaming rules, blaming (LIHL) mods for not acting against those rules, but after extensively thinking about it, I am sure there is no rule against clogging that has a lot of disadvantages itself. Instead of focussing on rules and (the lack of) moderators acting against it, we should focus on the map itself. Either it should be improved, or if it cannot be done or no one takes the time for it, it is just a sad fact that the map is flawed and that we have to deal with that.

[Diablo_]

As some mentioned there are 2 totally different sorts of clogging.

1) Leaking huge lvl 5/6 (and possibly other levels) and kill the leaks slowly (0 attack) to gain plenty of time to send a ton on level 7/10. This is what currently is becoming popular (again) and many people are annoyed by. While I find it a bit boring and would probably never initiate it this imo is a legit strategy. It is not overpowered and rather just drastically changes this particular game. If the other team properly adapts to it (i.e. push asap, up king and also send big 7 and 10) it imo is a rather weak strategy. The leaking team loses e.g. 70% of the creep bounties while the other team gets a bonus of 30% and both teams have the same time to gather lumber (the non leaking team will have lower pushes first but with the way more creep and king gold they can easily catch up and outpush the leaking team). I believe once people learn how to play against this strategy it will become less popular again and having it happen once in a while is a nice and refreshing change of gameplay.

2) Leaking huge on a race level to leak slower and possibly win the race even though you would have most likely lost if you didn't leak a lot on purpose. Imo this is a bigger problem as it often is simply unfair. However, the most extreme and most lame cases are those where a team would sell towers right before the race level in order to leak more but this is banned in public games and very limited in LIHL games. So for the remaining cases it can usually be predicted when a team wants to clog (low values and big leaks 11,12,13 etc.) so once again the other team has options to adapt, for example pushing a bit more and killing the other team on level 13/14 instead of racing level 15.

All in all clogging is part of the (current) map and I think no rules are necessarily needed, but I'm not against banning it if a proper rule comes up. But that's the big problem, I don't think there is any rule possible that properly bans clogging while being transparent and easy to follow and detect ingame but also doesn't have an influence on the general gameplay. So far the best rule I have seen (and was used in LIHL for quite some time) is a "Do not clog on purpose" one where mods have to judge case by case. But this of course also has obvious flaws and neither players nor mods will be really happy with it.