instances that anti stuck are not allowed

[iightfyre]

The use of anti-stuck as far as I know goes back to the ENT rules on LTD that you can find here: https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4

It states:

Antistuck
Can only be used on your side of the map only.
Cannot be used to kill steal leaks from your teammate (you can use it if your teammate is dead)
Cannot be used to delay units from returning to the king.

1. So, as far as I understand it; the scenario on lvl 3 where u anti stuck your towers to avoid the blood orc at the middle would be an abuse of the anti stuck function. "Cannot be used to delay units from returning to the king". This is how I interpret the rule and how I have always assumed it to be played.

2. As far as not allowing anti-stuck to catch leaks from the player adjacent you... I personally don't agree. I think using anti-stuck to catch leaks from your partner is acceptable under the original ENT LTD rules. I don't feel that we should change the rule for LIHL.

[Feor]

We understand how the rules are expressed and what they mean iight, but what me ba_fail and donald are trying to say is that maybe those parts of the rules should be reviewed again and redefined, we disagree with a part of their definitions.

[iightfyre]

You disagree with not being able to use anti stuck to delay your units to the king right?

Well, In my opinion (and only my opinion) - the rule about not using anti stuck to delay your units to the king should stay...
And definitely not use anti stuck to make creeps not attack properly.. in my opinion as well.

Let's leave this topic open and we can see what other players have to say about it too.. i think all of the admins are open to suggestion on this topic

[Feor]

You disagree with not being able to use anti stuck to delay your units to the king right?

I think that if you are allowed to use anti-stuck to catch leaks you should be allowed to use it to delay as well

Or

Use of anti-stuck should only be allowed for the original design purposes: to only make stuck units to move properly.

[BA_Fail]

If showing up in front of the army to catch the leaks is considered "delaying units from reaching the king", what would you consider catching leaks from your lanemate? That "delays units from reaching the king" in a more serious manner because they have to change direction, whereas in the instance I brought up they go in a straight line.

There are instances where I would agree it should be banned such as level 20 where having the turtles go back to kill the extra units make a huge impact.

[Diablo_]

You disagree with not being able to use anti stuck to delay your units to the king right?

I think that if you are allowed to use anti-stuck to catch leaks you should be allowed to use it to delay as well

Or

Use of anti-stuck should only be allowed for the original design purposes: to only make stuck units to move properly.

I see it the same way. Either allow both, catching leaks and dodging sends via antistuck, or nothing at all but using it on stuck creeps. Tho the second option will have a huge influence on the game (especially for double building) and "dumbs" it down a bit.

[dweiler]

I have another example which seems paradoxical to me, I would like to hear your take on it:

Imagine 1 or 2 persons leaking and 2 in the middle. You can use antistuck to move 1 player forward to get all the kills (for example the weaker one, to make him stronger). With the current rules I think it is both allowed and not-allowed:

1. Allowed because you are anti-stucking a player to directly catch a creep, you are not delaying or otherwise doing something wrong. This anti-stuck fits perfectly in your description of a good anti-stuck.

2. Not allowed because you are anti-stucking so that the other player will in a delayed way catch the creeps. This is no different from anti-stucking the player to prevent him to go to the middle so the other player can catch the creeps.

But don't forget to address the principal questions that Feor, BA_Fail and Diablo_ and mr. good-looking (donaldtheduckie) have! It is more important than my question!

[DonaldtheDuckie]

That is a pro use of it as well, oh and you forgot to add my name to people supporting either
1. not asing at all (unless at stuck creeps, like the mapmaker intended)
2. allowing all kinds of antistuck.

Bear in mind that people form other realms than useast who got more lag than useasters got an disadvantage atm using antistuck cause of more delay. So if the aim of the rules is to make the competitive terms more fair and equal for everyone, asing should be completely prohibited unless there are creeps that are actually stuck.

One can also argue if double building is in the nature of what the mapmaker intended with the map.

[DonaldtheDuckie]

I forgot to add, prohibiting the use of anti stuck unless for stuck creeps, would make 3v3 and 4v4 games a lot more dynamic and less forgiving, which would make less games go on to 31+ imo.

In my opinion that would be a positive thing for the community, allowing more games to be played pr hour and less waiting time for those who didnt get a spot in the games. Something to keep in mind.

[iightfyre]

All of you make very valid points - I can't wait to see how the poll turns out

Thanks for all of your insights, once again a very good topic of discussion!

[iightfyre]

Vote is being cast atm. Rules will be clarified in the near future. Locking for now, moving to archive soon.