Island Defense statistics

[PLus]

@Timmythetauren
Minions that don't kill builders are effectively useless and don't deserve any elo in my opinion.
If the titan appreciates the minions help, he could allow the minion to kill the builder as a reward after breaking the base.

I also think that any minion that dies without killing any builders should gain 0 elo (from builder victories), to discourage suicide. But remain eligible for gaining elo (if the titan gives him another minion and he manages kill a builder) in case of an unavoidable death.

[TimmyTheTauren]

Touché.

Your idea could work in tandem with a time limit of some sort. Give a time limit of a few minutes or so to allow the player to opt out of being a minion and become and observer to allow his fellow builders to save elo. The autokick I mentioned earlier could work well if Neco implemented it, too.

I definitely don't won't to be automatically tied in with the titan when I die, so there needs to be a reasonable time limit.

What if you lose as minion, too? Will you lose more elo because you lost twice? Dying as builder and minion? Will winning as minion override the loss as builder? They should probably be factored together resulting in a slight elo gain rather than breaking even or losing elo. When dying as builder and going back to obs, you also should probably not gain as much elo as your team either, as you did die.

[PLus]

@Timmythetauren
Perhaps a 3-5 minute time limit should given to minions to opt out after killing the first builder.

What if you lose as minion, too? Will you lose more elo because you lost twice? Dying as builder and minion?
No, if you kill a builder before losing a minion you should remain locked (elo wise) with the titan's side. You should lose the same elo as the titan.

Will winning as minion override the loss as builder?
Yes, if you manage to kill a builder you should gain the same elo as the titan if your team wins.

They should probably be factored together resulting in a slight elo gain rather than breaking even or losing elo. When dying as builder and going back to obs, you also should probably not gain as much elo as your team either, as you did die.
We should wait for an opinion from u.akfb to see if it's within his capabilities to have altered percentages for players on the same team. I think our ideas are becoming a too convoluted to code.

[aRt)Y]

As this is becoming too complex and probably way too bugged with the minion, I would focus on the titan and builders only.

The minions are not part of the main roles which are given from the very beginning. You are either a builder or a titan and that what counts for the elo.

[Burn]

@uakf.b
Found another case - https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=1513540

Is this a result of people leaving too quickly? It seems the game over timer caused him to win because he was afk.

Probably something to do with him staying the full duration of the game.

EDIT:
Striked everything, as you guys already explained it.

I think you guys are talking too far into it, you should focus your brainpower on finding and fixing these bugs, or suggest changes that is easy to do. We don't want @uakf.b thinking about anything other than fixing the bugs.

End game doesn't trigger if there are any observers (after the titan has killed all the builders), resulting in a stale mate.

Since we didn't really define the problem yet and assuming the above quote is correct, then it must've meant that since he stayed the full duration of the game and it was a stalemate due to the observers, he was the last man standing? I'm pretty sure that this is a new bug in the latest map which I have only played once and haven't gotten enough information to fully analyse it.

So you guys are basically talking about an auto-kick function after the titan/builders wins the game?

-Burn

[TimmyTheTauren]

@uakf.b @burnshady @plus
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=1520372

We need a way to implement the rule that a titan may leave with 3+ leavers. I titan'd this game and three players went obs automatically. You may leave in this situation according to the rules, but since people don't want to ruin their elo, we can't exactly do that.

Although I won in this case, with the leavers there is usually very minimum feed and once a base pops up you usually lose. I understand this could be tricky to do, or not possible at all.

Ideas?

----

We also need to fix the players staying as obs when you titan issue, I had to kick someone from obs earlier in order to correctly receive my win.

----

What is the deal with going -titan? Since the original titan left, it naturally says other team has left, you may leave now. So at this point the game is over and elo will not change? If you go -titan you still win, correct? Does the game still record K/D at this point, assuming someone went titan?

[aRt)Y]

I had already talked to him and we agreed on leaving the 3 leavers auto ban out since it's impossible to detect if if the builder team contains basers or only supporters, etc.

ID has way too many scenarios.

[TimmyTheTauren]

I don't see how not being able to detect basers or supporters has anything to do with the three leaver rule, but ok.

[mnks.beastmast]

If a minion stays,and titan suicides/dies the minion receives ELO like they would do as a builder
If titan leaves and some1 takes over (-titan) and wins, they lose points as if titan won the game.
(I was discussing these two situations with a friend and we tested it a bit...gonna keep doing so if an opportunity pops.This post will be edited)

EDIT:After going (-titan) , I got the elo I was supposed to get considering I was builder (titan leave).So after titan leave game becomes play4fun except for the death ratio maybe.

[Marked]

It needs to be fixed that if it is e-connreset then it doesn't count towards to person who did it, I just fucking titan'ed after I lost my last game, was about to kill last fucking builder and fatal error now I'm going to get a under 1.4k elo again because of it, just make the people gain elo, and the e-connresets not lose anything because it's stupid and I don't even know if I want to play anymore if it's going to be like this everyone's in a heated competition for good elo and I should technically be a lot of higher.

[Neco]

Stats are desyncing.

This is why W3MMD isn't in the map by default .

[aRt)Y]

Well, after observing how the stats influenced the game and the players and looking how stats are (not) working well for a(n unbalanced) game like Island Defense, I would suggest disabling the stats (w/l, etc) again.

[Marked]

Well, after observing how the stats influenced the game and the players and looking how stats are (not) working well for a(n unbalanced) game like Island Defense, I would suggest disabling the stats (w/l, etc) again.

I don't recommend permanently disabling statistics, I'm just saying maybe we should disable them till Neco can finish the next version, and maybe we can implement the fixes like 3 leaver builders, econn-reset, and other things, I like stats its just that they're annoying when calculated incorrectly. It gives some of us another reason to play since we've all been around for such an long time with few changes.

[aRt)Y]

Well, as I mentioned, Island Defense is way too unbalanced. We can easily stack in teams and the result will always be the same.

We don't have the possibility to balance the lobby based on stats due to 10vs1. It might be useful to see how often you died as builder or how often you slained a minion but win/lose shouldn't be shown.

Plus, stats make the gap between bad and good players even bigger.

There isn't anything positive about it, except pubs seeing they win rate of 20% and thinking it's good.

[PLus]

Well, as I mentioned, Island Defense is way too unbalanced. We can easily stack in teams and the result will always be the same.

We don't have the possibility to balance the lobby based on stats due to 10vs1. It might be useful to see how often you died as builder or how often you slained a minion but win/lose shouldn't be shown.

Plus, stats make the gap between bad and good players even bigger.

There isn't anything positive about it, except pubs seeing they win rate of 20% and thinking it's good.

I agree that the stats could use some improvements, but I wouldn't want them to be removed completely, they make the game more interesting for experienced players and give new players something to work towards. I think competition leads to progress.