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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Merex » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:49 pm

Sylvanas wrote:

in a typical Merex manner, Merex did pointlessly rephrase what he said and you're both intentionally singling out the first part of his tiny 1 line and a half of text post in order to justify his correction and seem "right". cherry picking+strawman.

Of course my reply won't get approved so that your narrative can appear to be definitive and unchallenged. This way you achieve... gain... absolutely nothing in the eyes of anyone. You're so petty it's insane.

In a typical Sylvanas manner, you attempt to try and defend a case that you've clearly little to no clue about. I'd expect nothing less from you, though.

But, I will explain it again - So the very first sentence clearly does state "rangebans means you are using a vpn or proxy". I did correct that, and automatically "SnowwyWolf" says "You literally repeated what I just said. So what I said is entirely true. You literally corrected nothing I said". Tell me Sylvanas, in what world would an applicant ever speak to a staff member like that? I'd never interacted with this person before.

I can state for the record neither myself or Haunt are "taking this personally" in anyway. We're merely concerned about this person's state of mind because there wasn't a need for argumentation to "combust" out of this very small brief interaction via the Discord. Given the fact they've done nothing but try and outright call us out in "taking it personal" and furthering trying to defend this point in every post I've kindly tried to make here - It's not convincing. We do not need someone who will argue with other staff, like Haunt said, we're a solid team and we do not need troublemakers. Believe me, we've had them before and it did not end well, in the slightest.

But, I look forward to seeing whatever it is you have to "call me out on" next, Sylvanas. Just make sure you're coming in prepared, like usual. This one was a bit more sloppy than the rest.
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Sylvanas » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:46 am

It's exactly as I said, you wanted to go all ackchually on him so badly that you either stopped reading after the first words or deliberately ignored the rest so that you could "correct" him. You seem to want validation more than extra help with ban requests.

I made a picture version:
wolf.png (397.04 KiB) Viewed 1155 times
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Astros (Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:48 pm) • SnowwyWolf (Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:24 am)

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby epicdeath » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:45 am

My 2 cents here:

Snowy correctly (to my knowledge) described what a rangeban is in discord however he phrased it in such a way that it could be construed as rangebans only applying to vpn's/proxies which is not the case.

Merex clarified it nicely I think and while I can understand how it may have felt like he was publicly undermining you it's more important that the user asking about rangebans as well as others who may read your post are given the correct information. You gave this information but in a slightly confusing structure which, I feel, left some room for misinterpretation.

Once again Haunt confirmed merex's definition. Again it's understandable that you feel he should have approached you in PM however it's more important that a holistically clear and correct definition is presented by the moderation team then them having to perform a dance around your sensitivities.

I reckon that your reaction to their minor correction, while understandable, was a tad unnecessary and I suspect you didn't take enough time to consider why they felt it was important to make sure that clear and correct information is publicly presented rather than approaching you privately. Even though the private approach is more polite, it would not rectify any potential misunderstandings from other community members.

snowy's definition was correct but not clear
Merex and haunt were correct to ensure that clear and accurate information is presented
Y'all might wanna shake hands and move on cus as an isolated event it's pretty minor
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HazarDous (Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:10 am) • Astros (Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:56 pm) • SnowwyWolf (Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:23 am)

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby nitehawk » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:37 am

I have to agree with epicdeath here. Merex was just doing his job, and had every right to correct wolf to ensure nobody gets confused with true meaning of Rangebans. I can understand the confusion and frustration from wolf, but the best thing to do is get over it, and have respect for each other. There is no room for causing arguments & drama here, especially at a time where we need as much support from this community.

There are only few members left willing to volunteer their time to help others, therefore we should take every applicant seriously. We all play the same game, and the last thing we want to see is this service being shutdown. I hope staff department will make the right decision. !support
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Astros » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:45 pm

1) I didn't think Snowwy's response was inaccurate at all. It may have been slightly phrased differently but it still covers the topic being mentioned. The need to single out the "Rangeban means you are using a VPN or proxy" without acknowledging that there was a continuation to further explain the other causes of it is removing important context to defend a position no one stated. It's like someone saying, "I hate NYC only when it is cold." Would it be okay for someone to cut off the "only when it is cold" part of my sentence and simply claim I stated, "I hate NYC"? It's entirely misleading. The response from Snowwy does seem quite defensive, however, the need to insert that someone has more experience with the subject to debate something no one ever claimed further exasperated the situation. This was basically either a miscommunication or arguing semantics - neither of which changes the content of what was actually being said.

2) Not entirely sure where the stance of him having to always be right comes from. He wasn't wrong so he was defending the claim that he was. I think mods can ALSO do a better job of not trying to think they are always right. I can show 20 people what Snowwy wrote compared to what Merex wrote and I can bet the overwhelming majority will state it says the same thing in just a different paraphrased version. No one expects a mod to be perfect. They expect them to be PERSONABLE, however.

3) Since we are bringing other mods and internal conflict... I can tell you for a fact that there are former staff members who have been unhappy with current staff members due to their behavior and attitude as well. This is something you guys can also improve on without having the domineering stance that clearly irritates others. I'm glad guys like Rain, Halo_Mauler, and Desire have returned to help with the ban requests but it seems more seasonal than static. 150+ ban requests is not a small amount (used to be near 300 but I had a fun few days). I tried my best to help but it's obvious you guys need more active and qualified contributors. From my own personal experience, I primarily left because I stopped playing ENT and have been playing much less DotA than I used to. My brother still plays when he's at my home but even he has moved onto other games. But I also left because there is a lack of community involvement. When one or less than a handful of moderators are actively helping the community, it becomes collateral damage. Other moderators see inactivity and feel unmotivated to help as well. Anonymity considered, current moderators have expressed the same to me.

A)I always find myself taking the approach of, "we're volunteers" but at the same time, there are months in-between from the last ban request solved by moderators. There's only so many times you can say that before it becomes an excuse. If you can't do it, you can't do it. Just admit it. No one will fault you for that.
B) There's also a stance that, "If you report them, we will get to it. What difference does it make? They'll get banned eventually." This type of neglect allows game-ruiners to ruin as many games as possible without penalty before a moderator actually looks into it. They can ruin 10-15 games before actually being banned or reported (I'm willing to bet others have not chosen to report someone because they have noticed that ban requests aren't being looked at) whereas if it were looked at much sooner, they'd probably get banned before ruining 5 games. I remember playing a game weeks ago and someone openly said, "Go ahead and report me, mods don't even care anymore." I was in that game as a current moderator and couldn't help but realize what he was saying is true. This can lead to a decline in players (such as myself) and the belief that ENT is no longer what it used to be.
C) Let's face it. ENTgaming has been losing players more than ever. Games have been removed from the autohost list, games take forever to start, newer games are out, and quite frankly, people move on. But there are ways to still keep the community strong and it seems like it hasn't been getting anywhere close to that.

Just my educated opinion but if you have an opposing view of this, do show any evidence.

4) It's very possible for Snowwy to improve on being less defensive and for you guys to give him a valid chance. You guys felt the need to correct him and he felt the need to defend himself. This could have been easily handled better from BOTH sides. If his character trait in one instance of him defending himself righteously but argumentatively is enough to deny him, that's a valid choice. You guys run the show and choose who you want in your group. But the overwhelming majority of ENT players here have supported him in giving him a chance because he's been showing more effort than most in the position lately. Either way, ENT needs more active and qualified contributors. I may no longer play ENT but you guys provided valuable years of free service to players. It would be a shame for ENT to die not because of players moving on but because people dislike the community.
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby HazarDous » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:11 am

Application approved.

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